New Wet Kojak's "Nasty International" - Rediscovering a Sleaze Rock Classic

Head Medicine presents:

New Wet Kojak's Nasty International

Rediscovering a Sleaze Rock Classic

writing and illustration by brian "kojak" koschak (no relation to New Wet)

New Wet Kojak's Nasty International is one of those classic records destined to live its life hidden in the shadows. Released discreetly by the legendary Touch and Go Records in 1997, New Wet Kojak's enigmatic masterpiece was just too strange for mass consumption. Music "for the clinically odd," said one reviewer.  Without any  singles, videos, or extended national tours to support it, Nasty International remained almost completely obscured from sight ever since its release, existing only by word of mouth from those weird or lucky enough to stumble upon it.  New Wet Kojak was a supergroup of sorts, featuring several luminaries from the fabled Washington DC hardcore/post-hardcore scene of the 80s and 90s, but the band was never designed for material success. From their inception in Amsterdam in 1992 until their cryogenic freeze a decade later, New Wet Kojak remained a pet project in contrast to the band members' more demanding musical day jobs. Nasty International was the band's second album and is a snapshot of the group at the height of their experimental powers. The music is sleazy, decadent, incredibly self-indulgent, and relentlessly cool... like a freakier, more pornographic Morphine to get you in the rough ballpark.  Seedy lounge lizard/drunken beat poet vocals... lyrics that are equal parts sexy and seductive, awkward and ridiculous... scuzzy bass lines slithering through stumbling drumbeats... crooning saxophone... and abstract washes of guitar with feedback squalls and white noise blasts. The songs themselves are stream of consciousness oddities, but the performances are tightly focused, and a thick atmosphere coats everything.  Nasty International is a compelling album from the first note to the last, and sounds like very little else before or since. 

New Wet Kojak was the brainchild of singer/guitarist Scott McCloud and bassist Johnny Temple. The two were bandmates in Washington DC since the mid 80s with their post-hardcore group Soulside, which dissolved and morphed into the criminally under-appreciated Girls Against Boys in 1990.  GVSB went on a fucking tear through the early part of that decade, consistently cranking out their strange brand of filthy, sexy noise rock, and they were known as one of that era's hottest live bands. The group relocated to New York City and stood on the peripheral of superstardom, hailed by many as the Next Big Thing in the post-Nirvana alternative rock world.   But while GVSB toured the world and major labels came knocking, McCloud and Temple hatched a plan for a new project in the summer of '92... something stranger... more off-kilter... a project that was more laid back and experimental to counter the growing seriousness of their Girls Against Boys duties.  The project drew in several important DC musicians:  guitarist/keyboardist/engineer Geoff Turner of the influential band Gray Matter and founder of WGNS Studios, one of DC's most acclaimed independent recording studios (it is worth noting that Dave Grohl's pre-Foo Fighters demos were crafted here with Turner's help), Turner's WGNS engineering partner and area saxophonist Charles Bennington, ex-Edsel drummer and Fugazi's sound engineer Nick Pellicciotto,  and Shudder to Think's Nathan Larson on trumpet.  The group was christened New Wet Kojak, of all random things.  Music was recorded off and on throughout '93 and '94 until the self titled New Wet Kojak album was released in 1995 (Larson would leave the band soon after). That record dimmed the lights and set the mood, acting as a rough template for what was to come with its nocturnal, nicotine-stained sound.  In the fall of 1995, Girls Against Boys were writing and recording *House of GVSB*, their fourth and arguably best album. Even as GVSB fired on all cylinders and major label contracts with Geffen were being signed, somehow, simultaneously, more New Wet Kojak music was being created for a second album.  It was an amazingly fertile creative period for McCloud and Temple, to say the least.  From the start, the recordings that would evolve into Nasty International were more intense than NWK's self-titled album.  There was a wider range of experimental sounds. The overall mood was heavier.  Everything seemed more opiated and paranoid, with a strong cinematic feel to the entire thing.  New Wet Kojak were in top form, and Nasty International became a timeless sleaze rock classic, regardless of how few people have appreciated it over the years.


Scott McCloud and Touch and Go Records were gracious enough to post a six song sample of Nasty International to accompany this article, but i would highly recommend spending the $9.99 and downloading the full album HERE.  It's one of those records that needs to be heard in its entirety to get the full effect.

[EDITOR'S NOTE:  Nasty International is an intoxicating swirl of sounds, especially if served under the proper conditions. I suppose this album would sound great at the gym, or deadlocked in rush hour traffic, but you are not really enjoying the record to its full potential, in my opinion.  This is an after hours, loose-tie kinda album.  The deeper into the late night/early morning, the better.  Ideally, the party has finally cleared out and the cool people are all that's left. Maybe you finally have that special someone right where you want them and you are ready to make your move, or you finally have some drunken, horny alone time....whatever... the addition of warm, consenting adults is encouraged, but not necessary.  A few too many tequila shots are required, additional stimulants are optional. Porn with the volume muted is  recommended.  Serve chilled on a hot night. Good times are fully guaranteed... ~ the editor]

Nasty International sounds warped and off-balance right from the start with the opening track "Cool Heart."  Dripped over a murky beat and slurred bass is McCloud's ridiculous opening lines, "I'm gettin' happy/I'm gettin'... slappy,"  spoken/sung with a loose, shitfaced swagger.  It's immediately obvious that this album is going to be pretty dark and weird, but it's also refusing to take itself too seriously.  It's an odd balance. McCloud establishes himself as a charismatic host, even as he constantly tries to get in our pants, and the band sounds skanky as fuck behind him.  It's an unusual mix of sounds, for sure, so you need to buy into New Wet Kojak's musical snake oil scheme early or the album will lose you. It's a fun ride and worth the investment.  "Stereo Explosive" straightens things up a bit, but has a deceptively weird ebb and flow that builds some subliminal tension leading into "Get the Curse," which boots the club doors down and hijacks the dancefloor. Pellicciotto's huge drum beats and Temple's porno bass lines are up front and obvious while McCloud shows a knack for memorable one liners/come on's, but the performances of Turner and Bennington are much more mysterious. With Turner's unconventional guitar/keyboard noise and atmospherics, and Bennington's smooth sax skronk, the two often merge in the ether to form a tranced out smear of abstract color washes.  It sounds like nothing i've ever heard.  Things cool off  with "Hot Sparks," an album highlight.  Perfect dive bar slow dance muzak, with McCloud's best drunken pick up line yet, "You've got a fucked up dance styyyle/that's what i neeeed..."  With the noise settled for a moment, you can quietly take a moment to appreciate how beautifully the album was recorded, how nuanced the performances are, and how creatively textured and layered the final mix sounds.  Headphones are highly recommended to hear these subtleties.  Remember, several members of NWK were seasoned sound engineers. They were having fun experimenting here, and it shows. The album perks up again and pours a fresh round of drinks with the swanky "Love & a Sick Beat" before side one climaxes with the savage white noise blasts of "Sugar X" and crumples in a heap, exhausted.  Side two starts off with the ridiculously filthy sounds of "Kick Some Life." A sloppy drum groove and a melted bass line form it's core while everything else swirls chaotically around it.  This is the soundtrack for drugged up/blacked out good times, or muzak for back alley sex with strangers.  Nasty stuff.  The mood lightens considerably for the next few tracks: The voyeuristic "Code Windham," the slinky lounge jazz of "Limelight Feel," and "Miramax #1," with McCloud advising us,  "It's your movie/stay cool/stay crazy." These songs relax and come up for a quick smoke before Nasty International retreats back to the shadows.  The smoky lounge sounds of "Blue Magic" starts off with a creepy beat poet dedication over  brushed drums, "This one's for all the dead babies/ch-boom-ch-boom boom/for all the dead babies."  It's a quietly unnerving track.  McCloud sounds like a guy who has officially had several too many drinks, bitterly mumbling to himself "Las Vegas is gone/Los Angeles is gone/and all the bad luck dead movie stars/they still got it better than where we are/... over the rainbow," and when he tells us "I'm your number one fan," he sounds like a lecherous creep. You realize he's harmless tho, as the song quietly passes out with its head on the bar.  A silent minute later, the album's hidden track, "Rub That Paste," wakes up, belligerent and ready to fight. It's a noisy, nihlistic freak out with McCloud drunkenly howling, "Style/No talent, baby/Rub that paste!/Taste the Life!/TASTE THE LIFE!" until the bouncer grabs him by the neck and tosses him out into the alley to sleep it off.  So ends another night in the life of New Wet Kojak.

After the album's release, critical reception of Nasty International was widely varied.  Pitchfork (in their early days), notoriously gave the record a rare, near perfect score, while other reviewers gave it a hopeless D-. There was rarely any middle ground, either this album was beloved or it was deemed unlistenable.  New Wet Kojak toured the East and West Coasts, as well as Europe, (here's a vintage recording of an entire live performance from '97, just prior to NI's release) but the band was never allowed a full time commitment with Girls Against Boys active on a major label, so the album quietly faded from view. In the years after the album's release, New Wet Kojak moved away from the murky experimentalism of Nasty International.  The music scene had abruptly changed soon after the record hit the racks, and, realistically, there was just nowhere left to go in that direction.  Alternative/indie rock music was out, and electronic club beats were in.  NWK merged with the times and made some interesting sounds over two more full length albums, Do Things and This Is the Glamouous  and an EP, No. 4, but the band called it quits in 2003, around the same time that Girls Against Boys disbanded and all but vanished from the public consciousness. McCloud moved to Paris and formed a more intimate sound with his Paramount Styles project. Johnny Temple became the founder and publisher of the highly respected Akashic Books. Geoff Turner and Charles Bennington continued with WGNS, and Nick Pellicciotto continued on into sound engineering.  A decade passed and New Wet Kojak had quietly disappeared from sight. There were no hints at all of a New Wet Kojak reformation until it was announced that the band would be performing at the 20th anniversary celebration of the classic Washington DC club, The Black Cat, in September 2013.  The bill would be shared with equally surprising re-appearances by Gray Matter, Shudder to Think, and the now-fully reformed and active Girls Against Boys. NWK, with only a single sound check as preparation, took the stage that weekend and showed little evidence that this was the band's first live show in 11 years.  The crowd was stunned, and, by many accounts,  New Wet Kojak stole the show that weekend.

a high quality, multi-camera video of "Kick Some Life" from the Black Cat reunion assembled by Geoff Turner

and here's a nearly 20 minute audience field recording from that show

   

Maybe now that this great band has finally stirred from it's sleep, reconnected to the past, and planted seeds for a possible future, New Wet Kojak can step out of its shadowed obscurity and into the spotlight for a change after all these years.

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An Exclusive Interview with Scott McCloud

Head Medicine recently had a rare and comprehensive discussion with Scott McCloud about his experiences with New Wet Kojak and the recording of Nasty International.  We are honored to share it with you.

HEAD MEDICINE: How was New Wet Kojak conceived? What were the early days of the band like, and what was your mission/objective?

SCOTT McCLOUD: It started as a studio thing between Johnny and I... and developed from there with the very notable inclusion of the DC sector (Charles Bennington, sax, Geoff Turner, lead guitar/keys, and Nick Pelleciotto, drums)... I think mainly in the beginning it was a way to blow off steam and experiement in the studio in different ways with very skeletal songs.. In the bigger picture, alternative music was very serious business back then, so while I enjoyed all the success we were having with GVSB I wanted that band to maintain its heavy distorted sounds and use other, stranger ideas, for a different project so they would not interfere. Basically GVSB had settled down into a loud rock band, which is exactly what I wanted, and NWK would now be the weird little brother band.

HM:  Did New Wet Kojak develop from unused/rejected GVSB ideas, or was it formed as its own individual beast right from the start? Was there any interplay of ideas between NWK and GVSB, or was there a clear division between the two?

SM:  Yes, there was a clear distinction. There may have been basslines JT would try a couple times with GVSB and they didn't work, so they'd be backburnered for the Kojak, or for me, lyrics I felt were perhaps too obnoxiously childish to include... I took GVSB very seriously, we all did... . A song like NWK's “Freak Now” comes to mind. That would just not have been something everyone in GVSB would have elected to pursue I don't think, and we were a democracy... meaning what that means, we'd all lobby for what we thought was right, and in the beginning GVSB had plenty of ideas so there was no shortage of motivated material for either band really. And that's not to say NWK was not a democracy, in the end, but maybe of a different sort.

HM:  What did New Wet Kojak offer you creatively that GVSB did not?

SM:  Well, I could diversify in terms of instruments. I wanted to play drums, as well as guitar, and I could do that in NWK... for the recordings I mean.... It would have been undiplomatic to attempt to play some drums in GVSB..... after Nick P came into the fold playing great drums in NWK, he didn't mind, and I think enjoyed playing my drum beats on the songs which feature them... I'd always liked that simple drumming that inexperienced drummers sometimes do.... and I was not a good drummer, by any means, but that was the point...it was the sloppiness I liked. Same thing with the lyrics. I laboured long and hard over lyrics for both bands really, but in NWK (as there were no real expectations, mainly my own expectations) I could go a little easier on myself... Live a little. A lot of the NWK lyrics are phrases and non-sequiter repetions, etc (not that different in many ways to GVSB stuff) but I allowed myself a little more liberty for whatever reason. NWK became the little thing to have fun with and not worry (at all) about. Actually I remember being in the studio for the GVSB Geffen record and Nick Launay, the producer, telling me at one point “why don't you a try a little more of that kind of thing you do with New Wet Kojak?” and I didn't understand it at all at the time. I was, I think in retrospect, withering a bit under the pressure and expectations of a major label album and he was just trying to loosen me up.

HM:  What were some influences/inspiration/reference points you guys looked towards while developing the sound of New Wet Kojak?

SM:  I was a big Morphine fan, and wanted to try some stuff with Saxaphone... and Charles is a great sax player (even though he might claim, at times, that he has no idea what he was doing)...of course we weren't going for an E Street Band vibe, or a Bryan Ferry faux late night vibe where the sax kind of bleeds in to somehow show you “see its the end of the night in the big city, things are getting jazzy”... I never liked the assoctaion to “jazz”.... Its like, when you hear a saxaphone why is it jazz suddenly? Its just another instrument. There were very few bands using sax. Charles had a way of keeping it experimental, but also melodic at times. Later I used to say we were influenced by No wave type groups (James Chance and the Contortions, etc) but that's not really true, I didn't listen to that much. I don't know why I said that, I probably just couldn't think of anything else. It probably was a sort of perverse “Walk on the Wild Side” type of idea... but with the idea of stretching the limits of that into more noise. I think we wanted to challenge ourlselves, and to allow ourselves, to let it be as strange as possible... while keeping in mind they were still hopefully “listenable” tracks. I remember the New Musical Express review of Nasty International was like “NWK has made a record that only disgruntled record store employees will appeciate”.... meaning a record that only people who hate everything will like... and while this was maybe a bit disappointing, because it was the NME, and I did hope to bend some ears and such, it was more or less correct. Nasty International is not for everyone.

Part of this band, for all of us, may have been our own little protest of sorts, but I honestly forget what we were protesting against. Maybe we had no idea ourselves but just felt like being ornery.

HM:  Girls Against Boys' *House of GVSB* and New Wet Kojak's Nasty International were recorded within weeks of each other.  Was the writing of these albums running parallel to each other or was Nasty International born after finishing *House of GVSB*?

SM:  I guess they were. I remember finishing House in Hoboken at Water Music in autumn 95... we'd just signed the Geffen deal. It was a heady time, I felt like I could do anything, accomplish anything, if only I put my mind to it... (ha) so why not also finish up Nasty? Also I think unconscously, I was revelling in being right where we were. Top of our game at Touch & Go, and more to look forward to... or be nervous about, but that's a good feeling when you're making music. The idea that people might actually listen to it. I remember sitting on a plane off to a UK/Europe press tour and listening to House and Nasty sessions on my DAT player (free gift from Sony) and thinking to myself, 'you better enjoy these next couple of years, it's not something that always happens.' I was very proud of both albums.

HM:  I feel that Nasty International is your finest, tightest work with New Wet Kojak. Compared to the self titled album, NI was far deeper, more atmospheric and more sonically dense. What kind of creative head space were you guys in when creating this material and how had it evolved since the first album? Did you have a clear intention of what you wanted this album to be or did it just sort of happen?

SM:  I agree. Funny note on this Nasty International received a 9.8 rating from Pitchfork when it came out in 1997 But the review was later deleted.  But anyway, yes, the full five piece band had really come together, for one thing (the first album is less fleshed out)... Everyone was excited, we knew it would be released on Touch & Go, so we had a home to be on, and could do what we wanted. Still, we never wrote a song as a five piece in a room together... we tried one and I think someone commented “it sort of sounds like the theme to Taxi, the TV show... and not in a good way... it's pretty dry”... I think with Nasty everyone felt pretty comfortable with the way things were working... taking liberties with the tracks, etc... there were more overdubs, more excentric ideas. And the clear intention, if there was one, was to sort of enjoy the situation, perhaps revel in it, and experiment. It was like someone would go in and do an overdub and you would think “that was the craziest, dumbest thing I have ever heard” but when listening back you would say “I dunno, its pretty cool though.” So it was this little trip we were on, the five of us. We laughed about it a lot, we were having fun. We were also maybe a little full of ourselves for no real reason, but that can also be an advantageous feeling.

HM:  How did these compositions take form? Were the songs clearly mapped out beforehand or spontaneous pieces? Was the recording done live or overdubbed and pieced together?

SM:  Usually two people, maybe three, would lay down the basic track,... like a skeleton. That could be anyone, Geoff playing the keyboards parts to “Code Windham” with me on drums. I think even “Freak Now” was tracked maybe with just me on drums and Charles on sax, I can't remember if Johnny put the bass down as an overdub or during. I think it was just afterwards. And I liked that, I had never tracked a song playing drums with only a sax player. Or Nick would take over drums, with Geoff on Guitar and Johnny playing bass. “Stereo Explosive”... On that song I don't do much at all, aside from breathing into the mic and whisper/shout/scream something or other. So it was all over the place. However, Johnny and I would usually have a handful of basic ideas to bring for the sessions, I didn't like arriving in the studio and leaving everything to chance. That never worked very well. Because if the spark wasn't there you needed a few basic ideas to fall back on just to have something to do. ... sometimes, it probably goes without saying, things did NOT work out and we spent hours diddling around (fucking the flies, as the French say) on something which only got scrapped in the end. I didn't want things to get overly complicated. The idea was that in staying rudimentary, the songs would remain performable without arduous rehearsals (we never rehearsed, I never wanted to rehearse, even for tours) and always be open to some improvisation. Sometimes Nick would say things like “man, I want to do some like Ethiopian drum patterns on this” or something....and we'd go down that route for a while. But two hours later I'd be like “OK, I'll step over to the Cat and come back in a bit.” I sort of liked it when somehow the idea stayed simple, and everything came together in a more sripped down way, very quickly. Which was usually the case with the songs we kept.

Since this was the way we recorded the songs, with very little editing if any back then (I think no digital editing at all) often the live versions were better later on. The ideas wouldn't change that much but the overall performance improved.

HM:  What are your strongest memories from those recording sessions? Any interesting stories of extracurricular activities after hours?

SM:  We did recordings in NYC and WDC, mostly in DC. Geoff and Charles had their studio WGNS next door to the old Black Cat... so we'd be pretty loose about things. I hadn't really recorded with anyone like them before. I remember once taking the train down to DC and they met me at the station and Geoff said “so we have a sort of alternative plan for this weekend, first of all we want to drive around for a couple hours with you playing guitar in the backseat of the car and just record you.” I liked the unconventionality of that. On the other had, of course nothing was used from that. But it went with the whole idea. I didn't want to be all work no play, so it was far from that. Sometimes we'd all come in the first night and just sort of mess around for hours, doing nothing, talking, making jokes, having some drinks, and... well, nothing would get done. But it was still useful because we were all sort of bonding on whatever this band was supposed to be, what it was all about, the attitude. But it was the sessions inbetween these extremes that were the best. Every night we'd take breaks, wander over and see what Dante was doing at Black Cat, watch a few songs from whatever band was playing, then head back over to the studio to re-enter our own world. This was cool, being in the studio was always a bit numbing to me after many hours, just stepping out and seeing a band for 20 minutes (any band) was refreshing.

HM:  If i may be blunt, how much chemical inspiration was fueling the sessions? This does not sound like music performed by musicians on the straight and narrow.

SM:  We drank, yes. Maybe occasional other stimulants, but not that much. I do remember one weekend we brought some more recreational stuff down, but I think it was such a disaster we never did that again (ok maybe we did it twice). I mean if we drank too much we just couldn't do anything, but it did seem that some was required to set the right mood. It seems almost shameful to say these days, given the relative sobriety of rock, but I suppose back then it didn't seem much of an issue. Drinking in 90s rock was pretty much everywhere it seemed to me. Maybe its the same now for some people? I don't really know. But yes, if you are a band who take this route (Not that I recommend it) you will find its all about timing. Too much is not a good thing, at all. Total abstinence, on the other hand, can make one feel despondent, perhaps hopeless, as to the nature of what is being endeavoured. But yes, this was not music that was ever recorded in the morning.

HM:  What do you feel were the strengths of everybody's performances on this album? yours included.

SM:  I feel like Johnny really got to shine on a lot of the Kojak stuff, he is a great bass player and NWK always had these very sort of sinister sounding bass lines which often drive the songs... they were almost pornographic sounding to me... low budget porn riffage. Cheesy sexy, or something. Nick P is a great drummer... as evidenced by the recent Kojak show in DC... I could turn around and just watch him. The way he keeps it all together, occassionally using a free hand (without losing a beat) to push his glasses back up onto the bridge of his nose, is amazing. Also Nick's sense of humor kept the whole thing going more often than not. I think for Geoff, who is a great songwriter (Gray Matter and all the other bands) it was a chance for him to really let his hair down in a wildly experimental way... his guitar set up in Kojak was always a source of amusement... so many effects, but he always seemed to be on the edge of it all breaking down... which is musical tension, which is of course great... and Charles, who has such a laid back stage persona... He'd sometimes just stand there smoking on stage. Charles also held a lot of the sessions together and did some of the harder technical work. For me, again I think some of my drum parts are pretty good. I think vocally I did a decent job of sounding like a person on the edge of sanity (easy to do at the time) … but also I did a good job guiding the ship, bringing in the skeletons of songs with lots of space for everyone to go wild on, and having the sense to not be overly critical....titling the songs, including Touch & Go in the process, all the other work, dealing with everything. I don't know, I had this sort of bravado, I think to pull out these songs and get them done took some of that as well.

HM:  Nasty International has an almost cinematic feel to it, and a lurid, dark, sexy vibe. What kind of image does this album paint in your head, and under what conditions/situations should this music be played for maximum enjoyment?

SM:  The image I get is yes, perhaps the cinematic dark side to even being in an alternative band... all the attention/fame seeking... the alcohol, the desperation to be liked, and the desire to be disliked at the same time, the bravado, the pride, the fears... and it all sounds dangerously like its going off the rails. You want it too much, so you can't have it. The high of the evening is perilously close to turning into a very bad low vibe indeed... I always perferred to listen on headphones while travelling somewhere (plane, train, automobile). Airports= best.

HM:  These recordings sat on the shelf for quite a while... most were recorded in december of '95, not mixed until a year later, and finally released in june of '97. I am assuming the delay was due to GVSB responsibilities? How did the performances sound to you when the recordings were finally dusted off and finished up? In your heart, which bands' work were you more excited about at this point and were you ever unhappy that NWK had to be done in the shadow of GVSB?

SM:  I don't remember comparing them too much, although yes I suppose they were recorded in parts more or less in tandem. I was very pleased with both records. I think for me, though, the main thing was that while heading towards an unknown future at a major label, I felt like relishing the moment with these albums... To have two active bands on Touch & Go? I mean, this was very sweet indeed. I was a bit concerned about the pressures we'd face with Geffen... so really, I sort of wish I could have, or would have, stayed in this situation for at least a few more years. Somewhere in-between expectation and just having fun. Probably should have done that, in the end. I think GVSB was not really ready to record the major label album...

HM:  Did New Wet Kojak get to tour or perform very much in support of Nasty International?

SM:  We did tour, quite a lot.. We didn't do full US tours, East and West Coast instead. I remember a couple trips to SXSW, at least one. And even more European shows. For a band like we were we played a lot. Some festivals here and there. We were active and I remember good audiences. [again, here's an entire performance from '97 to get a taste of their live sound back in the day]

HM:  The sound of New Wet Kojak changed pretty dramatically after Nasty International. How did the band evolve after that album's release?

SM:  I agree, it did change. I think a part of that was just the general climate change in music circa 1997/1998... to the millenium. The future was happening and it was going to be ironic. Electronic music was coming to the front. Whereas a year or two previous GVSB and even NWK was sort of edgy, overnight it seemed this changed. Everybody wanted to be a DJ suddenly. 90s alt rock was sort of passe.... replaced by a sense of irony, distance, novelty.... Groove Armada "I see you baby, shaking that ass, shaking that ass"  I thought, fuck I can do this too, why not? Honestly I felt like we had some of that anyway, already in the music.  I was hoping with both GVSB and NWK could assimilate/update... whatever... be a part of it. Have fun with it.  But somehow that ironic distance didn't really work, in the end, it was a sort of self-sabotage.  At the time I thought "Do Things" (first NWK Beggars Banquet LP) was our strongest to date. But looking back, I can see... its sort of like the best part of the whole thing, maybe the pathos of it (musically and lyrically), was replaced by a more tongue-in-cheek supericiality. It did not translate, and sucked a lot of the power out of the music. On the other hand, NWK also did a 12" remix vinyl release... a ten minute version of "Stick Out Your Tongue" by Charles, which I am sure would still rank, in my view, as one of the best remixes of all time.  [listen to it HERE as well as a nine-minute remix of "Miramax"]

HM:  When did NWK decide to hang it up and call it quits?

SM:  We played some shows in 2002 in Europe, ending at a big festival in Belgium (I remember Coldplay was on the bill very early in the evening, New Wet Kojak and Blonde Redhead were the headliners... ) and that was it. Pretty much the same time GVSB stopped recording as well, I think. Or close to that. I moved to Paris, I was burned out by then. I don't remember exact dates.

HM:  Recently, New Wet Kojak reconvened for the 20th anniversary celebration of the Black Cat club in Washington, DC. Can you tell us a bit about how that came together? What are your thoughts on the performance? By the way, i recently spoke to craig wedren and stuart hill of shudder to think and they both agreed that, hands down, NWK turned in that weekends most impressive performance.

SM: Well, I was visiting DC and Dante  told me he was planning a Black Cat anniversary weekend and asked me if I thought NWK could play. I was a bit worried about it, but there could have been no better occasion for NWK play again.  As per our usual selves, we did not rehearse apart from once on the Black Cat stage during one afternoon for a couple hours. Basically an extended soundcheck. And this is not a reflection of our ambivalence, on the other hand, it is sort of the very essence of the band. For us to rehearse for a week would be antithetical to the idea and nature of the group.  But I was amazed. Both that audience was so attentive and that I think we played perhaps the best set I ever remember the band doing in its existence...  I think it opened my eyes. I could see it from another angle. Not as a personal failure, but as something special indeed. It's taken me awhile to get that distance. I'm sincerely flattered Craig and Stuart would say that about the performance. It was great to play with Shudder as well. I'm surprised they would say that.

HM:  Is there anything in the future for New Wet Kojak?

SM:  The Black Cat show was recorded and filmed, apparently in high quality, so there is maybe something happening with that coming up... which I would like, as I think live the songs are better than some of the recorded versions.

We'd always talked about doing a reunion tour someday, but limiting it to exclusively dates in Poland and Florida.

It seems like a better idea than ever.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a very special thank you to Scott McCloud, Geoff Turner, and the fine folks at Touch and Go Records for their invaluable contributions to this piece.

BUY NEW WET KOJAK'S NASTY INTERNATIONAL

writing and art by Brian "Kojak" Koschak

©2014 brian koschak

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Goat - Head Medicine's 2013 Band of the Year

Goat's Electric Ballroom poster by Adam Pobiak

Potential.  A lot of artists and bands have it, but few ever dig deep down in and reach it to the fullest.  Over the past year, the electrifying Swedish afro-psych collective Goat has been the rare exception.  Not only have they continuously met my ridiculous expectations, but they have time and again exceeded them.  Goat first came to my attention in the summer of 2012 after the release of their first 7" single and i was instantly mesmerized by their dense, trance-inducing afro krautrock sound.  My expectations were deliriously high for their debut album World Music that August by Rocket Recordings.   It was an instant classic and, in my opinion, light years above everything else released that year.  To make things even more mysterious, the band had never performed live outside of their Arctic Circle commune until that fall with a few exploratory live rituals around Northern Europe.  These shows revealed a band hitting the ground at full speed with a blistering live show and stunning stage presence.  By the end of 2012, i was fully on board with Goat, hook line and sinker, drinking every drop of Kool Aid set in front of me, excited for what 2013 would hold.  No band started off the year with more potential than Goat, but what would they do with it?  Would they reach up and grab it or would they remain in obscurity and let things fizzle out?

Goat started off in the spring with the release of the "Stonegoat/Dreambuilding" single, two new compositions that deepened and widened their sound even further, before unleashing their first US tour.  The group's destination was the Austin Psych Fest, with a handful of East Coast and Midwest dates leading up to and following their great American unveiling.  The shows took on an instantly mythic quality, with the realization to all in attendance that something special was being witnessed.  The music was stretched into expansive Zeppelin-esque mind altering jams that dove deeper and harder into outer and innerspace than their recorded material, and by the time the group returned to Europe to hit the major summer festival circuit, Goat's live performances were air fucking tight.  With complete self confidence, the band shared stages with some of the very best bands in the entire world, and were consistently hailed as standout performers.  Glastonbury.  Roskilde.  Primavera.   How amazing that must have been, being out in the crowd and  obliviously stumbling on Goat at a show like Roskilde, and getting your mind turned inside out?  The thousands of new fans and instant converts that followed in Goat's wake after every performance is proof of the group's power.  Goat  wrapped up 2013 with an honored appearance at the final All Tomorrow's Parties festival, and with one last intimate club show at Koko's in London in December.  This was a  release party for their  live album, Live Ballroom Ritual, a recording of their London club gig at the Electric Ballroom in June which acts as a document that captures and preserves their monumental year.

It was refreshing to see a band confidently step up, right out of the gate,  and slay at every given opportunity without any wavering.  Goat's year long steamrolling of music fans around the world was truly remarkable to watch as it unfolded, making them HEAD MEDICINE's easy choice for Band of the Year.  And if there is another album and touring involved next year, they will be frontrunners for the 2014 title as well.


HEAD MEDICINE recently checked in with Goat, who have retreated to the recording studio, to see what lies ahead for the band in 2014.


HEAD MEDICINE:  Rocket Recordings recently released  Live Ballroom Ritual, a live album capturing Goat's  performance at the Camden Electric Ballroom in London  this summer.  What are your thoughts on this recording and it's release?  In your opinion, what were the top Goat performances from 2013?

GOAT:  We are very happy with the release. It captures the set we have been playing most of the year and it has a good sound where you can feel the energy as well as the Beauty spots. And we like that it captures a whole show. It becomes some sort of album where we can look back and relive 2013 shows. We discussed which shows that we remember the most and everyone feels differently of course but I think most of us could agree on the Glastonbury experience, Roskilde festival, Austin psych fest and now at Koko in London. Chicago and New York was special to. But it is hard to point out anything since we are happy with all of the shows really.


HEAD MEDICINE:  The mostly-instrumental track "Goat Jam" appears on the  "Crystallized - Celebrating 15 Years of Rocket Recordings" compilation.  its laid back vibe sounds like nothing else you have released so far and adds a new flavor to your catalog.  What can you tell us about this track?  is this a new recording or is it from an older session? 

GOAT:  it's an old session. Don't know from when but I think in the mid nineties. No one in the current live lineup are playing on the song. Not sure who does at all actually. I think it is a jam with some overdubs on it.


HEAD MEDICINE:  San Francisco psych dj Al Lover has been releasing some pretty incredible  projects lately and has a highly anticipated Goat remix 12" coming out in 2014 on PNKSLM.  Have you heard anything that he has been cooking up for that project? what are your thoughts on Goat remixes?

GOAT:  we have absolutely nothing against that anyone makes remixes of our songs, just go ahead. And about this Al lover, we have heard what he has done and I seriously consider this man a genius.


HEAD MEDICINE:  Goat recently played at the final All Tomorrow's Parties Festival in Sussex, England,  and later a sold out headlining show at Koko's in London to close out a phenomenal year.  how was that experience?  it must have been quite an honor to be invited to perform at the Loop-curated festival for its final run, and by all accounts the Koko show was an electrifying success.


GOAT:  yeah! This weekend was amazing! So nice to hang out at the ATP area where we all stayed in flats having a great time. Met Michael Rother from Neu! And those people from Beefhearts magic band. Wonderful people! And the Koko was a stunning club. It was magic to play there and to end this year there, it really was.


HEAD MEDICINE:  Has there been any progress on writing or recording any new Goat material?  What can you tell us about the sessions?

GOAT:  we are working on it. But we take it in parts as we did with the last one and we don't wanna stress it. That is not good for creativity. But we got about 7 tracks more or less finished, and we are gonna do 4-5 more. It will be fine. We feel no pressure and just play what feels right. Don't wanna tell you to much of how it sounds yet but some tracks have a little bit of a desert feeling to them.

HEAD MEDICINE:  Is the lineup for these new recordings essentially the same as World Music and/or the touring group, or are there new contributors?

GOAT:  it always depends on who has time and who is present at the session. It is a relaxed atmosphere and people come and go.


HEAD MEDICINE:  How has the past year influenced, inspired, or helped evolve the new material? 

GOAT:  can't say that what we have been doing this year really affect our way to work in the studio but we have discovered some new music, at least new to us, and those kind of discoveries always works themselves into the music unconsciously you know.


HEAD MEDICINE:  are any of the members of Goat involved in any other bands or musical projects that we should know about?

GOAT:  No. There is no member of the Goat band that are involved in anything else at the moment. Maybe after we  quit doing this rockband thing people will do other kinds of music in other formations but we will see.


HEAD MEDICINE:  any tentative plans for 2014?
GOAT:  no, not really. We are gonna finish the new album, do some touring and some festivals but mostly we are gonna try and stay true to ourselves and the collective and be at home with our families most of the year. Goat will never be a hard touring band.

~kojak

thanks again to Goat for taking the time to speak with HEAD MEDICINE! 

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Zombi - St. Louis 12-3-13 (in support of Goblin) FULL SET and interview with A.E. Paterra

Zombi, the mighty synth/bass/drums overlords from Pittsburgh PA, have been pretty quiet recently, especially as a live touring act.  Drummer A.E. Paterra and synths/bassist Steve Moore have given only a small handful of live performances since 2007.  But with their recent two week-long gig supporting legendary Italian prog maestros Goblin on the second leg of their first ever North American tour, Zombi have emerged dramatically from the shadows.  Being paired up with Goblin was an inspired choice since Zombi obviously shares much of the same DNA as their 1970's forerunner, making this probably the most powerful, can't-miss tour of the year.


Head Medicine is honored to have had the chance to witness this epic match up on their recent stop in St. Louis, Missouri.  there will be a full concert review in the coming weeks, but for now, here is Zombi's performance in its entirety, and a brief interview with A.E. Paterra on what lies ahead for the band. (click HERE for Head Medicine's previous interview with Paterra, our 2012 Solo Artist of the Year, for his prolific work on his spaced out Kubrickian solo project Majeure)


part one

part two

HEAD MEDICINE'S interview with A.E. Paterra

Head Medicine:  How did this tour come about and what's it like playing with @#$%ing Goblin right now?

A.E. Paterra:  Their booking agent got in touch with us and asked us to do the tour a few months ago.  well, he said it was possible that it might happen, and then it all worked out.  It's... kind of surreal.  When we started this band, the one thing that we both talked about the first time we met was Goblin.  That was a very common link, and that was the starting point.  Then we realized we liked a whole bunch of other things, but that was the first thing we latched onto.


Head Medicine:  There was a song you guys played tonight that i had never heard.  Was that a new Zombi tune?

A.E. Paterra:  None of that material was new.  Most of it was from the Surface to Air album.  There was  the song "Infinity" that was originally on a split with the band Mazerati and is on the current Relapse reissue of Spirit Animal, and the song "Orion" which was on Cosmos.


Head Medicine:  Is there any new Zombi material on the way? 

A.E. Paterra:  We've been sending some things back and forth, but nothing is really picking up steam.  I think we both agree on the fact that if we do another album, we want to write it together.  We don't want it to be fileshared.  We have a few things floating around, but i think we will actually want to get together in the same room and sit down and play some bass and drums and see what happens from there. 


Head Medicine:  Are there at least any Zombi musical ideas brewing in the back of your head?

A.E. Paterra:  Not really.  I think we both have an idea of what we would like to do, but nothing has really been written at all.  But i think we both kind of see where we want to go.  It's something we will talk about, but i hope that maybe by spring or summer we could maybe start something, but we will see.  Ideally what would be great is to write another album and to do a small tour for the album.  that would be great, but who knows.  At our pace...


Head Medicine:  You guys have so many other projects, is there more of that coming up?  Is there more Majeure in the near future?

A.E. Paterra:  When i get back in January, i'm going to try to write for Majeure.  Maybe in the spring i would like to get out to the West Coast, i haven't been out there in...  i don't think i've ever played out there with Majeure. Steve is working on a couple of soundtracks right now for a couple of films, and i think when he's done with that and when i get through my writing process, i would love to put another Zombi album out. 


Head Medicine:  Any other plans for 2014? 
A.E. Paterra:  Not really.  i would be great to have another Majeure album out in the fall.  That's kind of my plan. 

GOBLIN/ZOMBI 2013 USA TOUR

Fri 11/29 Chicago, IL/ The Empty Bottle w/Taiga, Alex Barnett (no Goblin)

Sat 11/30 Minneapolis, MN/ The Varsity Theater

Sun 12/01 Milwaukee, WI/ Turner Hall

Tues 12/03 St. Louis, MO/ 2720 Cherokee

Wed 12/04 Cincinnati, OH/ Taft Theatre

Thur 12/05 Cleveland, OH/ Beachland Ballroom

Fri 12/06 Pittsburgh, PA/ Carnegie Music Hall

Sat 12/07 Sayreville, NJ/ Starland

Sun 12/08 NYC, NY/ Le Poisson Rouge

Tues 12/10 Boston, MA/ Sinclair

Wed 12/11 New Haven, CT/ Center Church on the Green

Thur 12/12 Philadelphia, PA/ Trocadero

Fri 12/13 Washington, DC/ 9:30 Club

Sat 12/14 Carrboro, NC/ Cats Cradle

thanks to A.E. Paterra for taking the time to speak with HEAD MEDICINE!



~kojak

Cool All Over with Al Lover

note: the following is taken from part two of the HEAD MEDICINE exclusive Reflections of Austin Psych Fest 2013 (read Part One HERE, and the complete Part Two HERE).  I felt it was important to isolate this piece on it's own as well as within the larger context of the APF article in order to give it it's own life.  enjoy.  ~kojak

COOL ALL OVER

with

AL LOVER

     One of the most memorable performances of Austin Psych Fest 2013 came from a guy who wasn't even officially on the bill, yet had a profoundly subliminal influence over the entire weekend's festivities.  instead of performing for a sea of attentive eyes, his performance came from behind an invisible veil on the main Reverberation Stage as the roadies tore down and set up the various bands' gear.  his booming, psyched out trip hop grooves provided the relentlessly badass soundtrack for the smiling, laughing audience as they milled about having the time of their lives, waiting patiently for the next band to take the stage.  These sounds were a thread that strung through the festival, keeping everything moving and never allowing the mood to grow idle or stagnant.  numerous times throughout the weekend i would be lost in those grooves, asking out loud, "what the fuck are we listening to??" and being almost disappointed when it would fade out to make way for some incredible band onstage as they were about to begin.  it turns out these mesmerizing beats were produced live, cut up and spontaneously assembled onstage by the San Francisco producer/dj Al Lover.  It was a performance that was anonymous to all but a small handful in attendance, but helped dramatically color the mood and atmosphere of the festival, more than any other single performer on stage that weekend. 

     Once i had a name to pin onto the sounds, i jumped head first into the Al Lover back catalog and quickly found myself falling down the rabbit hole.  this dude has a ridiculous amount of music to sift through, a good chunk of which is available for free download:  original recordings, remixes, mix tapes... all of it working at a very high quality level.  This guy's sound is right up my alley, too... languid opium den grooves and scuzzy drunken fuck beats...  a unique mix of new and classic fuzzed out, reverb drenched psychedelia with those long gone narcotic Bristol trip hop beats and the mid to late 90s mind melting cut-n-paste hip hop collage sounds of San Fran's Glue Factory luminaries like Dan the Automator and DJ Shadow.  it's a perfect blend of musical ingredients, and is, in my opinion, one of the more original and fresh sounds out there.

You can listen to most of Al Lover's music on his Bandcamp and Soundcloud sites, and there are plenty of treats to find when digging through his old Blogspot.  i have downloaded HOURS of stuff, and i still don't think i have all of it.  and, remember, it's all hot shit stuff.   pay special attention to the lovingly ruthless deconstruction of Captain Beefheart's first album on Safe As Milk Replica... "Woodsist Remixed," the unauthorized remixing of artists from the Woodsist Records stable... the classic Distorted Reverberations of Reverberating Distortion, reworkings of modern psych masters... Heavy Hippies - Cheapdrugsfreelove which sounds exactly like you would think from the title... and his free mixtape downloads for Austin Psych Fest with Elevated Transmissions Volume One and Volume Two.

Head Medicine is very excited to sit down and learn more about Al Lover from the man himself.

HEAD MEDICINE:  at the Austin Psych Fest this year, i was blown away by all of the between-band muzak that was coming from the main stage.   the big instrumental trip hop grooves  were among the most brilliant performances of the weekend, and gave the Fest a very cohesive thread that ran through the three days. can you tell us a bit about how you became involved with APF and how the mixes came together?   were the tunes coming from the main stage new tracks or from your previous releases?  will these mixes be available for purchase/download?  i need them.  all of them. 

AL LOVER:  first off thanks so much, i'm glad you dug them. i was curious to see how they would be received. i got involved with apf, so i'm told,  through the remix of the night beats song h-bomb that i did. apparently they played it for the black angels and they dug it and reached out to me about procuring some mixes for the 2012 festival and playing the festival as well. since then i've kind of been put on as the "official" dj for psych fest i guess. which is quite an honor. most of the stuff i was playing at psych fest was live re edits and remixes of old and new psych songs done with looping, adding extra drum breaks and effects. then i would just play some regular songs here and there. i think i only played a couple of my own tracks. the mixes are not available anywhere right now, but i plan on releasing some stuff like that when i have some time in the near future.

HM:  how have you been influenced by the past and present San Francisco music scene?  you are an unusual concoction of the old 60's psychedelia mashed into the mid-90s DJ Shadow/Dan the Automator Glue Factory sound collage  and twisted  with the current psych sounds being produced.    what other music has had a profound influence on you?

AL:  the bay area, since the sixties has always had cool stuff going on, i try my best to soak up and research all the local music that's happened here. i grew up on rap and punk, but my dad alway had the stones playing and is a big velvet underground fan, so that had a big influence on me as well. it's funny, i remember this profoundly. when the judgment night soundtrack came out back in the days it was so cool to me to see hip hop and grunge/punk/metal being mixed together. the song with de la soul and teenage fan club "fallen" is one of my all time favorite songs. i still find myself humming it to myself on a regular basis. i rocked that tape all day everyday.  edan's album beauty and the beat was a big influence on me as well as early rza production. thee oh see's have been a big influence to me as well since i moved to sf. too many to name.

HM:  i am curious about your creative process(es).  how do your tracks materialize?  what kind of digital/analog equipment are you using?  how spontaneous vs. pre-planned?

AL:  up until very recently everything i did was made on an mpc 2000 xl, i just got ableton though so the mpc has been collecting a little dust unfortunately. that is going to change soon though, it's been calling out to me. i usually start with a sample. i'll hear a part of a song and then chop it up find some drums that fit, then run everything through too many effects till it's all blown out and ruined, then i'll track it out for a mix. a lot of my favorite stuff that i've done, initially is because of spontaneous inspiration. the basic idea materializes out of nowhere then i plan accordingly.

HM:  what was the inspiration behind the complete deconstruction and reassembly of Captain Beefheart's first album, Safe as Milk, into Safe as Milk Replica?  any other albums you have the itch to take apart and collage back together?  what are your thoughts on honoring source material vs. complete artistic reinvisioning while remixing?

AL:  that was one of those things that was just a spontaneous thing. the day that beefheart died, the idea just came to me as kind of a tribute, in my own way. in my mind it was a kind of energy transference. i have heard a couple albums that i consider remixing in it's entirety but i kind of want to focus less on "remixing" and focus more on making actual albums right now. as for honoring source material, i think both are cool. i want to give credit where credit is due, especially when remixing current artists. but some things i want to keep a secret. it's a cool feeling when you are listening to an old record and you hear an original of a sample. that's one of my favorite parts of listening to old records, so i feel like keeping it hidden can be a good thing too.

HM:  you have released hours worth of material and mixes online for free, and got into a bit of trouble  for your free remixes of artists on the Woodsist record label.  what are your opinions on piracy laws and releasing music for free?  have your thoughts changed since you are now releasing formal albums on a record label and this is now a loss of income?

AL:  not really, as i see it right now, artists make money from touring and licensing. i think music is to be shared, not profited from. obviously an artist wants to be compensated for his or her efforts and i respect that. when i start bring ing in large sums from record sales i'll be glad to pay royalties to other artists. it's the labels that are most concerned with this because they're a business. i am really into the idea of how folk music progressed in the past, songs getting passed down through generations, modernized and changed to fit the current conditions. i think remix culture operates on these same principles.

HM:  your debut album, "space magick" will be released soon on PNKSLM.  What can we expect with this record?  how does it fit into the overall body of your work?

AL:  it's a lot different that anything i've released. i made it as an offering to the spirit world and the ancient gods, so we'll see how people on earth dig it.
 
HM:  you have been asked to create a monthly mix series for the Austin Psych Fest called Elevated Transmissions.  can you tell us a bit about this project?  any hint of what you might have up your sleeve?

AL:  yeah, really stoked on this ongoing project. the idea is to showcase current bands the guys at psych fest and i are feeling, promote bands on the reverberation appreciation society label and spotlight lesser known bands coming up. it was an idea they had, which i'm really stoked to be a part of, plus it helps me to discover new music which is my favorite thing to do.

HM:  as if you aren't busy enough, you recently announced that you are working on a 12" remix of the mighty Goat from Sweden.  that's a pretty exciting project.  how did that come about?  who will be releasing it once it is finished?  can you tease us a bit with what you have in mind for the project?  i'm curious what you are hearing on "world music" that has you licking your chops and ready to dig in and slice it all up.

AL:  Well my buddy luke who runs PNK SLM works with them a bit and kind of had the idea. I had actually thought about it myself before hand because my natural inclination when i hear something amazing is to sample it, ha. but when he mentioned it and said he'd like to put it on wax. I figured, why not? I'm pretty sure we're gonna do a limited run of it on PNK SLM. Can't go into too much detail about it yet, but it's gonna be pretty crazy, building off the afro beat rhythms they do with a lot more layers of effects and a healthy portion of 808s.


HM:  you seem to be very conscious of weaving a narrative or cinematic view through your mixes.  in your opinion, what are the most important elements of a good mix?

AL:  well, coming from hip hop actual "mixing" is one of the most important parts. but aside from that i think the flow of the mix, yeah the narrative, how the mix develops. it's supposed to be a journey, so that people can enjoy the ride.


HM:  in an age of splintering political and social ideologies, music has been moving in the opposite direction, most notably in the psych music scene.  wildly different genres and styles are seamlessly merging into a new global sound, international borders are falling away as bands and artists from all over the world are now all on the same stage,  and there is a renewed interest in consciousness expansion and connection with music.  your merging of hip hop and drugged out psych is a prime example of this.  thoughts?
 
AL:  i think with the internet the amount of exposure to different cultures, genres, ideas and the like is inspiring people to try new combinations of ideas that they might not have thought of due to a lack of exposure before hand. it's really great, so many interesting things are happening right now due to the ability to search out and connect with new ideas online. i think the renewed interest in consciousness expansion is due to a similar exposure to new ideas and revealed truths with the internet to an extent, but i also think that humans can only exist in such an artificial, shallow, greedy environment for so long before the unconscious mind or higher self starts urning for more of a connection to nature and an pure state of being. i also think civilizations have cycles of these types of enlightening movements and we're shifting towards one now. in my opinion it's nature's way of putting us back on track and reconnecting with natural law.

HM:  under what conditions should the music of al lover be played for maximum enjoyment?
AL:  i alway make my stuff with the idea of it coinciding with motion. i feel like it's headphone music for a bicycle ride or bombing a hill on a skateboard. loops are alway good for drug rituals too, so there's that, ha.

HM:  any other projects/collaborations on the horizon?
AL:  yeah, so i got the 'space magick' lp coming out soon. no official date yet but hopefully before the end of the year. i have a remix project for a friend's cassette label 'headway recordings', which i'm really stoked on it's a more synth, bass heavy project, a really a new direction for me personally so that's really cool, that should be out maybe fall? 


Al Lover has also recently released through PNK SLM his first official release, the Vodun Moon 7".  it is in very limited quanities so contact PNK SLM for one now.  follow Al on Facebook for any updates


 

Goat - July 2013 Interview

GOAT:  THE JULY 2013 INTERVIEW

by kojak



After a blistering run through Europe's most prestigious summer music festivals, the Swedish tribal psych collective Goat have a growing number of fresh converts following in their wake.  Though only a live touring entity for less than nine months, Goat's performances were among the most talked about from their respective festivals, oftentimes staking their claim amongst some of the biggest and best bands in the world (watch their full Glastonbury performance HERE and the full set from Roskilde HERE)

HEAD MEDICINE recently checked in with the band to find out more about these stunning shows.  one thing is obvious after sitting down for a third time with the notoriously press-shy group:  Goat lives and breathes inside its own impenetrable bubble, unaffected by the fleeting whims, tastes, or demands from the outside world.  They are anchored by an unshakable self confidence and a genuine love of living in the moment, communing through music with each other and anyone who happens to be in attendance, whether it is 150 people in a small club, or tens of thousands at a major festival.  Their expectations and ambitions are unusually humble.  Goat will be whatever they want to be for as long as they decide.  Any future success will be on their own terms.



HEAD MEDICINE:  Goat's reputation continues to build after a series of high profile European festival appearances, including Primavera in Spain, England's Glastonbury, and Roskilde in Denmark.  by many accounts your performances were  among the best of those weekends.    are things just getting surreal at this point with all of this growing attention and praise?  any particularly memorable or unreal moments over the last few months that would have been impossible to imagine one year ago?

GOAT:  Well, that we were gonna play any of these festivals never crossed our minds one year ago but we are happy and thankful for the opportunity to do so. It has been amazing for sure. And I also think that the US tour improved our live set and has tightened us together as a live act so that these shows afterwards have been the best we've done live so far. But I'm sure we can still find new ways to develop live also, with new material and so on. But it is not in any ways getting surreal really cause you have to understand one thing, this is not taking over our lives. We keep our minds pure and simple and our feet on the ground. We know what is important in life and we just try to have a good time and enjoy the ride. If it ends tomorrow we will be just as happy. With that said I have to admit that playing that day time show at Glastonbury seing all those people was something out of the ordinary.


HEAD MEDICINE:  i would like to talk about the Glastonbury performances. the daytime show on the West Holts stage was your most high profile live show yet in front of your largest audience, many of whom had never heard your music before, and filmed from every possible angle by the BBC.  be honest, did you guys feel a bit more pressure with that show?  did you treat that performance the same as a small gig in a dark club, or did it require a different kind of preparation?  i am curious what kind of thoughts or emotions were running through you before/during/after that performance.

GOAT:  It was no difference in preparations or pressure. We can only do what we do and rely on each other. And play as good as possible. Actually we were very calm before that show as far as I remember. We discovered that there really is no difference playing small clubs then big festival stages. But it is fun to try both when we get this opportunity.


HEAD MEDICINE:  later that night you performed a second set on the Hells Stage in Shangri-La, and the previous evening, you blew up the Electric Ballroom in London in front of a bloodthirsty crowd of Goat fans.  what are the pros and cons to large daytime festival performances vs. smaller and more dramatic nighttime/club gigs, and a crowd who is familiar with your music vs. a mass of potential new converts?

GOAT:  I don't know. For me it is the same always. I feel no difference really. And I know that it is the same for everyone in the Goat band. It is just music and for whom or where you perform it doesn't matter as long as people enjoy it. If people were not enjoying it we would stop playing live I think but for everyone it is a nice feeling when you get this spiritual exchange of energy with the people listening and dancing. That really turns us on. We were not aware of this experience until we started to play live last year.


HEAD MEDICINE:  your Roskilde performance was notable for having a new member on stage playing keyboard, sax, and, harmonica.  he added an entirely new dimension to Goat's live show, and i was especially impressed with the addition of a harmonica solo during a blistering rendition of "The Sun The Moon."  will he be coming along on any future Goat tour dates or was this a one time thing?  was he by chance the guy playing keys and sax on World Music?

GOAT:  No he is not playing on the album. He is a long time participant in Goat born and still living in Greece. He travels a lot and plays with various groups around the world. He has done one show before with us at Stora Teatern in Gothenburg December last year. He will be with us when he has time or feel like it. He is great playing with, you never know what he is gonna do. The harmonica part on The sun the moon was never rehersed for example.

HEAD MEDICINE:  outside of Goat's live performances, are there any new song ideas bubbling to the surface?  is the band getting the itch to retreat back to the studio and cook up some new tunes or is everyone looking forward to some extended time off before considering new material?

GOAT:  Yes. We will start recording in September. Everyone is really looking forward to this more creative process again.


HEAD MEDICINE:  looking back, how do you feel the band has evolved over the last year since the release of World Music?

GOAT:  The live group is a more tighter musical unit now and we have learned how to play our songs good and with no stress. So as a live act we are much better now then last year. But Goat as a spiritual and living community, or as a musical creative collective, hasn't changed at all. Music shall be treated with joy and simplicity, use your ears and your heart and don't give a fuck about anything else. Loose your mind, stop questioning, thinking, and all that stuff. Are you enjoying the sounds you hear? Are you experience anything? Feeling something you like? Then it is enough. That is the principle we live by when we make music.


HEAD MEDICINE would like to thank Goat once again for their time.  tune in this fall when we check in on the recording of their new album.  should be interesting. 

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"Keep it Hid" No More: the untold story of the classic Dan Auerbach album

"Keep it Hid" No More:

Digging up the untold story of the classic Dan Auerbach album

a head medicine world exclusive

part one

the Bob Cesare Interview

in 2009, Dan Auerbach, singer/guitarist of the massively successful Black Keys and the 2013 Producer of the Year Grammy award winner, quietly released "Keep it Hid," a phenomenal solo album. the record turned out to be a defining creative moment for Auerbach and set a previously unreachable standard when compared to the raw and untamed minimalistic basement blues rawk of the early Black Keys albums:  the songwriting was stronger, the performances were tighter and more nuanced, the production deeper, and the instrumentation and musical styles more varied.  the influence of "Keep it Hid" runs deep through Auerbach's recent work and serves as a sonic template for his greatest musical accomplishments with the Black Keys and as a producer that would follow. (click HERE for the full HEAD MEDICINE "Keep it Hid" review)

the roots of "Keep it Hid" dig back to 2006 with the construction of Auerbach's Akron Analog home studio (assisted by the legendary Mark Neill, who would later produce "Brothers" and take home his own Grammy for his efforts), and the exploratory recording sessions that took place there with co-producer/engineer/multi-instrumentalist/drummer Bob Cesare.   Neill and Cesare acted as sonic mentors to Auerbach, guiding him out of the dank basement recording lifestyle and showing him the ins and outs of a proper recording workspace.  The two men dramatically helped midwife "Keep it Hid" into existence, with Cesare's drumming and musical knowledge critical to the album's greatness, and Neill's production touch and the masterful weaving of the final mix giving the record much of its personality.  Cesare was present on a molecular level with the creation of "Keep it Hid," and without his contributions and mentorship, the album would have turned out very differently, perhaps unrecognizably so.

Bob Cesare is a local Akron musician/artist whose musical roots dig back to the late 1960's.  an admitted obsessive audiophile, he has built an impressive knowledge of musical instruments and recording equipment and has developed a knack for tweaking the best possible performances out of them.  He formed the Beatles "historic performance" band Revolver in the early 80's with a vision of reproducing a vintage Fab Four performance from 1963-1966 (video HERE and HERE), and came shockingly close to realizing it's potential until a well-crafted employee derived mutiny stole Cesare's creation.  he largely retired from a career in music, focusing instead on graphic design, and it was almost by accident that he hooked up with Dan Auerbach in the summer of 2006.  this is his first ever  interview about his "Keep it Hid" experiences, and HEAD MEDICINE could not possibly be any more excited to share it with the world.

"Bob Cesare is one of the most sensitive and talented musicians I have ever had the pleasure of working on a project with. His drumming is always on point.  His sense of melody is peerless.

 I don't think "Keep it Hid" could have been near what it was without him."

~Mark Neill, of Soil of the South Sounds, world-renowned and

Grammy Award winning producer/engineer

                                                                                                                                                                    

 

HEAD MEDICINE:  How did your collaboration with Dan Auerbach come about and what were you guys trying to accomplish with the "keep it hid" recording sessions?

BOB CESARE:  I think it was after a 2006 Fourth of July show in downtown Akron, where I ended up chatting with Dan, after TBK played their slot. I don't know why, but Dan asked me if I had any recommendations for getting them a better drum sound for some recordings that they were doing. I asked him to explain the recording layout and the acoustics of the room. I recommended simply placing some gobos (sound dividers) around the drums and that I had some gobos that he was welcome to come over and borrow. Some time later, I found a message on my answering machine, from Dan, asking if he could try my gobos. That's how it all got started.

What were we trying to accomplish? For Dan, you'll have to ask him. For me, it was something to do. I quickly surmised that Dan seemed to keep his cards close to his chest and being polite, I didn't pry. Me? I'm just the opposite, as you'll soon see and/or regret. I was old enough to be his father, and played out since the 60's, having had all but retired many years prior. Lots and lots of rust. I don't think Dan was even aware that I was a drummer.  Primarily, I just felt like helping him work the bugs out of his new make-shift recording area in a rented room of an out-of-production Barberton, Ohio pie factory... that's how we referred to it on all of our subsequent labeling... The Pie Factory. The first time I saw the room, I thought to myself, 'You've got to be kidding?" It had a strange smell of rancid dough and often felt like either a freezer or an oven.  Back then, Dan had a hired drummer in there laying a drum track for a tune he called, "If The Sky Was A City".  I offered to help him get some better drum sounds. First thing I did was try to coax some half-decent sound out of something that resembled a drum kit located in the corner of the room. Lots of tuning and mic placement. Talk about trying to polish the proverbial turd? That's why the first things I started bringing in were some decent cymbals. My cymbals ended up being on nearly everyone's recordings that came out of Dan's studio during those years. Secondly, trying to tidy up the spaghetti wiring all over the place, running cables correctly. That's how I spent a lot of time while Dan was out on tour. Working on the acoustics of the space and trying to explain it all to Dan and introducing him to a few pieces of musical gear. We had lots of talks about gear and everything audio related. He seemed to really listen intently. Eventually I got behind the drum kit that I tweaked and gave it a test run. Dan looked a little surprised and then strapped on a guitar and soon after, was hitting the record button. I think the first song that we recorded together was that formerly mentioned tune, "If The Sky Was A City". This became a routine that lasted for around 3 years. Later on, I completely reworked a few vintage drum kits that I helped Dan procure, often taking them down to every single nut and bolt and setting them up with proper heads and tunings that I pitch matched with vintage cymbals. I'm pretty keen on that stuff.

Dan was an early riser, as am I, and he'd, nearly daily, call me first thing and say something like, "Hey, man, come on over. Hey, man, we've got work to do. Hey, man, let's make some music. Hey, man, let's work on our stuff. Hey, man, check out what I just bought." I'd swig down some coffee, get in the car and often not get home until very late. The tape would often run, capturing warts and all. I tried not to be so hard on myself, because we were just making test recordings with the ease of falling off a log. We would plug in some new toy, give it a road test and probably end up doing it all differently the next time. It was like a wacked-out laboratory of recording experiments. At times, the music seemed secondary to getting his studio worked out. As far as I knew, Dan's recording of some music to listen to in his car was simply a by product of getting his own studio, or his TBK studio, worked out. We burnt session copies for our cars and for me to listen on my home system.

Now and then, Patrick would come over to Dan's house or be there when I got there. We would chat, but never about recording. Being raised the way I was, I thought it impolite and crass to say something like, "Check out what Dan and I are recording". Strangely, for three years it never came up. It seemed natural to surmise that Patrick, being Dan's best friend, was aware of everything Dan was doing and why I seemed to be there almost as much as the family dog. I just figured that Dan kept him clued in and that Patrick was cool with it. I saw no reasons for anyone to hide anything and I had no reason to dislike or distrust Patrick. He seemed like a bright and funny guy to me. I even turned him onto using towels on his kit prior to the "Attack & Release" sessions... my own personal drum towels. If Patrick would have ever asked me to come over and help him with his studio, I would have gladly pitched in. That's how on-the-level everything appeared to me.

HEAD MEDICINE:  was it assumed that these songs would eventually evolve into future Black Keys compositions, or were they always independent and clearly separated from Dan's other work?

BOB CESARE:  I really didn't know for sure. I seem to recall hearing something that we did end up being re-recorded as Black Keys material. Other tunes that we crafted would not seem to benefit being done by TBK. To me, It appeared that Dan liked seeing what it was like working with someone else just to see what they brought to the table. Heck, Mark Neill and I helped design and build that proverbial table. When I would tell Dan about the small-time band in which I spent so many years of my youth, he seemed almost envious. It seemed that being in a band for many years with several of the same good musicians, who were, firstly, great friends, was something he said that he wished he could feel. What Dan did see, was that I was not Patrick and I had no desire to be Patrick or a Patrick knock-off either. If he wanted Carney-sounding drum parts, then call Patrick, not me and if that was ever to be the case, then why not use the real McCoy instead of an imitation? Dan told me that he could have any drummer he wanted, to work with on his projects, and he chose me. I never knew how to really take that. Funny, even though I never knew Patrick that well or any his family, it seems that we and our families had very much in common (railroading, graphic design, music, & art). As people, I think Dan and I and our families are very different though. We seemed to have precious little in common.

HEAD MEDICINE:  can you tell us a bit about the creative atmosphere inside the studio during the album's recording? how did the songs develop? did Dan come in with fairly finished compositions or was there alot of collaboration involved?

BOB CESARE:  First of all, I wasn't really aware of any music being recorded for an actual "album" up until the last few sessions. As far as I knew, the tunes or jams that came out of three long years and long days together were nothing more than the results of testing out different studio gear, recording approaches and different instrumentation. I felt it to be a very creative atmosphere, even when doing covers in our own way. Songs would often come about in a multitude of ways: Dan noodling around on a guitar and then me adding a drum part and or some percussion or I would be playing around with kit after tweaking it and Dan joining in with a guitar. A few times, Dan would go straight into some lyrics he had in his head, but usually he came up with a note book filled with lyrics. Sometimes Dan would ask me to play a drum style that he was hearing in his head and he would say something like, "Can you play a jungle beat?" My mission was to figure out and play what was in his mind. Nothing new really, because I did the same thing with clients that came to my art/design studio for twenty years. Being able to show people what they have in their minds is a honed skill. Of course, all of us drummers know the "jungle beat" from page 32 in our Lemming International Drum School Manual. We drummers are all really the same, you see... totally interchangeable... one size fits all. Joking aside, there was never any drum music laid down in front of me or any recording samples for me to regurgitate. Sometimes Dan would make drum-like sounds with his mouth to express a rhythm idea. Usually, I just came up with stuff off-the-cuff. Sure, I'd listen to his ideas, but ultimately ended up doing whatever I saw best serve the song. Dan always had the option of re-recording my drums tracks himself. That "jungle beat" tune turned out to be known as, "I Want Some More." Dan asked me something like, "What was a 70's funk beat?" Referring again to page 46 in The Lemming International... wait a second. Really, I just started in on a completely off-the-cuff non-repetitive groove and Dan asked if I could do it again in prep of recording. He then came in with a guitar part. I added some maracas and a Shekere of my liking. The recording was slowed down a bit to get that fat and gooey sound. That's the drum work you hear in "The Prowl". I know there are a lot of articles out there that make it appear as if I was just some hired sticks coming in to sit down and perform one drum score for the tune "Whispered Words" and then split, but it was so insanely far from that. So lets nip that in the bud before that proverbial dead horse gets beaten beyond recognition. Besides, the album credits tell a slightly more accurate story.

I will always look at Keep It Hid as a collaboration and remember laying down tracks with Dan looking at me and asking, "What do you think we should do next?' That's when you know that you're working together and there is mutual respect. Just listen to the two acoustic guitar tracks on the hard left and right of "Goin' Home". I brought over a beautiful Epiphone Texan, that was probably born within days of Paul McCartney's, for Dan to play. He wanted to use my Rickenbacker 12 for this song, too. I was persuasive in getting Dan to keep this song light, airy, clean and simple, utilizing it as a soft closing for the album. My reason being that since Dan's tune, "Trouble Weighs A Ton" was also such a soft tune that I suggested bookending the album with a soft opening and soft closing, but "letting them have it" in between those two...right between the ears. I explained that having the LP mastered with the first light tune mixed down in level by several db's, would leave enough overall headroom for the next tune to come crashing in at a comparatively realistic level. That's a rarity in the new age of hyper-compressed digital tracks, where "loud" is the prime directive. First, I recorded Dan and then helped set up a mic for trying out the Texan. Dan sat in the control room to hear how it sounded and I listened to a playback in my cans while playing a couple of different rhythm guitar parts that came into my head. Dan got on the talk back and said, "Let's track that." My two, slightly different, guitar tracks ended up on the tune and Dan said to me, "I would have never been able to come up with a guitar part like that." I took that as a nice complement that I'll never forget. That tune also ended up being in the movie soundtrack for "Up In The Air" and you can see my Ric 12 and Texan in the video of Dan with one of his uncles promoting "Trouble Weighs A Ton" (video HERE). Technically speaking, I truly believe that "Keep It Hid" was no more of a solo album than any other Black Keys album. I was there instead of Patrick. It's as simple as that. Same duties, different drummer. If someone thinks they can program a drummer to play exactly what they want, then their choice in drummer becomes moot and all drummers would fit the bill as the result is predeterminate. If they want total control... get a drum machine. Chemistry is what its all about. Try to get chemistry with drum samples.

It's a pity that none of you got to hear the original version of "Goin' Home". It included something that I referred to as a subliminal bass track. Dan had a synth that I had him set up with a pure sinus tone (a la organ pipe). He played a bass line consisting of long droning notes that came in (0.31) and accompanied the hard panned acoustic guitar tracks that I had previously laid down. It was such a low octave and mixed in so lightly that it didn't stand out as any particular instrument, but rather serving a sense of spirituality and petite grandeur to the song. It made the two acoustic guitars sound more majestic. Somehow that subliminal bass track vanished and I've always thought it castrated such a beautiful tune. Fortunately, I can still listen to the original burn of that session's rough... low end and all.

HEAD MEDICINE:  "keep it hid," from a production standpoint, has a very rich, warm, and classic sound, and stands out in stark contrast to the early, raw basement recordings of the Black Keys. were there any notable influences on you guys while shaping the overall sound of the recordings? were there any classic albums that anyone would pull out and say, "THIS... this is the sound i'm trying to find?" any interesting eureka moments in the search for capturing the sounds?

BOB CESARE:  I'm glad that you noticed the difference. I'd say that "Keep It Hid" needed to be very different from earlier Black Keys recordings but similar enough to hear some lineage or kinship, or else it would just be another TBK record. I also felt that it needed to show growth and not waft of sell-out. The happen-chance way that Keep It Hid came together should show that it wasn't purposely targeted for any money-making corporate-run genre. It was just music. Besides music, I've always been into high fidelity gear ever since I was a kid. I tried continuously and gingerly to get Dan to take baby steps out of his routine and comfort zone without letting him know it. I think I succeeded whether he liked it or not. I grew to know his real voice very well and thought he should allow others to hear it without so much processing. And yes, Dan was always pulling up music for me to check out. I, too, had him listen to some of my recommendations. An LP that comes to mind was Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's 1975 "Symphonion Dream. Reason being, early on, I was going on about the importance of track order and creating a visual journey with an album that just has to be listened to from beginning to end, without pause. Easier said than done and I told him that it was becoming a lost art brought on by kids compiling songs one by one. It was also a lost joy, the joy of sitting down with a big album cover to comb over while you listened to its musical prize. That's how we "multi-tasked" back in the day. I also listen to music that had horrible production, just to hear the greatness of the performance and I listen to music that I don't particularly like just because I'm so impressed with it's production. It works both ways.

I seem to remember Dan being enamored with productions that came from Mark Neill's "Soil of The South" studio in California and recordings done at Liam Watson's "Toe Rag Studios" in Hackney, London. Dan wanted to take me to Toe Rag Studios to record with him and, hopefully, learn some tricks of the trade. Mark and Liam go way back. Mark Neill was Dan's go-to guy for trying to capture the classic big hi-fi sounds that were Mark and Liam's trademark. Mark Neill's "Soil of The South Productions" and Liam's "Toe Rag Studio" look like they were separated at birth. Appearance-wise, Dan's new home studio in Akron didn't appear to fall far from that tree. Whenever you would see Dan's phone glued to his ear while he was in the studio, you could pretty much guess that mentor, Mark Neill was on the other end of the string.

As far as nuance and subtlety, that's something that I've always been majorly into. It's kinda been my rep. I loved discovering those little hidden gems buried deep into mixes and appreciate the extra efforts made to gain something so small. Even the most delicate squeaking of an old Ludwig Speed King bass drum pedal, I find intriguing. I always strove to hear recordings sound as real as possible to get a good idea of what the engineers and musicians were experiencing. I never liked when an audio system would get in the way of listening to music. I could go on and on about that subject.

HEAD MEDICINE:  there is a wide variety of instruments used throughout "Keep it Hid,"as opposed to the guitar-and-drums minimalism of the previous Black Keys albums. what was the feeling and the attitude in the studio with Dan's new wide open approach to instrumentation and the experimentation with sound, color, and texture? were there any rules or boundaries at all? a track like "when i left the room," for example sounds like a chef joyously throwing every available spice into the pot, just to see what happens. did Dan have any previous experience with multi-instruments or was it a learn on the fly experience?

BOB CESARE:  I really have no idea of what approach Dan had in mind. You would have to get that kind of information directly from him. All I can say is that Dan seemed interested in any type of instrument or piece of gear that I found pleasure in, which led me to introducing him to some of my vintage gear. Since you mentioned "When I Left The Room", I recall coming up with how the song started out with a tympani-like roll building-up on my floor tom, using mallets instead of drumsticks, throughout the entire song. Dan came in with the vocals after the drumroll started its build. That hook repeated throughout the song. When it came time to lay down a guitar lead on a second guitar track, I mentioned to Dan that, in my head, I was hearing a backwards guitar sound, a la reversed tape. My reasoning was that it would represent muffled voices coming through the walls of another room. Dan had an effect pedal that simulated that type of sound and we used that instead. He had a cheap Harmony banjo that we both thought would sound cool if it was tossed into the pot as well. I'm trying to remember what made me come up with the cha-cha-cha ending. With the minor cord structure forging a slight Latin feel, I felt the ending needed to be predictably old school. I don't know what Dan's previous experience was with instrumentation but I would say that we were always learning on the fly. The whole thing was a learning experience/experiment and we both had a lot of fun with it using that approach.

HEAD MEDICINE:  you seem incredibly knowledgeable about musical instruments and recording gear. can you tell us a bit about the various instruments/effects that were used on the sessions? i bet it was a vintage tech geeks wet dream. were they instruments from dan's collection, your collection, or someone else's collection? or a combination of all three? what kind of equipment was used to record the sessions?

BOB CESARE:  I've been on the planet for a bit longer than Dan, and had amassed a small collection of instruments and gear of which I lent quite a bit for the "Attack & Release" sessions at Suma Recording. Most of the actual KIH recording gear came from what Dan was procuring. I would bring in a few bits to complement things, but mainly I brought in instruments/amps and combed over several drum kits that both Dan and I had for the studio. I'm a freak on tweaking out a vintage drum kit and a bit of a cymbalholic, so I'm into details that have most people just rolling their eyes or scratching their heads.

When it comes to real knowledge about recording and vintage recording gear, you would have a hard time finding anyone that knows more than Mark Neill. He's in league of his own and he's simply just a great guy. Even though we used some pretty sweet, classic microphones, ranging from classic Coles & RCA ribbons, to Neumann tube mics, a few AKG D19's and some various EV mics, we also used some new Sure condenser mics that Dan was given. Mixing consoles went through a few changes from Studer to API, and lastly onto some old Altec tube mixers, along with a myriad of rack effects(compressors, echo and distortion boxes, etc,) complemented with a EMT plate reverb. Even though some recording was done by way of a Studer tape machine, most of the actual tracking was captured by a digital RADAR system. Sorry, vintage gear folks. There were a few other digital effects used along the line, also. Frankly, things changed around so often in that studio that I have a hard time remembering what was used on what and when and why it got changed for the next time. It was like a revolving door over there and nearly each session was a different lab experiment.

HEAD MEDICINE:  "Keep it Hid" is filled with a tight bass and drum interplay which anchors a large chunk of the album, and is the most obvious feature that separates this album from early Black Keys and would hint at their future recordings. can you enlighten us a bit on Dan's early approach to the bass during those sessions and the interplay between you and your drumming and how it developed? did you two record live bass and drums often or was the bass largely overdubbed over a Black Keys-ish guitar/drum structure, something a bit more in Dan's comfort zone?

BOB CESARE: I remember telling Dan how much I enjoyed the experiences of playing with bass players that I could just lock in with. I would always say that when a great bass player does an incredible job, you don't even know he's there. He just seems to play what's already in your head. As far as it went when Dan and I would start out on a tune, we would normally just have me on drums and Dan on guitar, sometimes laying down a live scratch vocal track and sometimes the main vocal track. It was afterwards that Dan would usually use his Gibson EB-3(I think) short-scale bass or even some sort of synth bass. I brought in a few different basses, but don't recall which one got used on what. I remember stressing that he shouldn't just play basically the same thing on the bass that he just played on his previous guitar part... notes, pacing, etc. and to think of complimentary alternatives, such as playing in the holes or working with the bass drum and not thumping on the strings in between notes. Leave a few of those holes for the drums but still leave some holes. After all, it takes holes to make good Swiss cheese. You can really beef up the percussion with the bass landing in the right spots. I feel that if the bass part sounds like it's obviously being overdubbed by the same guitar player, it just takes away from the feeling of a real band playing live in the studio. One-man "basement-tape-itis".

HEAD MEDICINE:  the album also features performances by Dave Huddleston and Rob "Thorney" Thorsen on upright bass, Jessica Lea Mayfield on backing vocals, and James Quine (dan's uncle) on rhythm guitar and harmony vocals. how did they become involved? were there any musicians who appeared yet are uncredited? many people think that the Fast Five, Dan's "Keep it Hid" touring band, were his guinea pigs for the sessions, yet the albums' credits do not mention them at all.

BOB CESARE:  I don't think that the Fast Five were the only guinea pigs and yet they were indeed guinea pigs... on their own sessions. When you're learning how to set up a good recording studio, everyone that walks through the door is a guinea pig. That's how you learn. I guess the trick is, that when a client walks through that door, to make them feel like you've already learned it.

Dave Huddleston sang and played guitar in a Cleveland band called "The Echos", as well as with a myriad of other musicians in the area. Dave has a great voice and is a great musician. He is so proficient in so may types of music. Best of all, he is a great friend. We've known each other since around 1981. Rob Thorney is a friend of Mark Neill, Jessica Lea Mayfield is a dear friend that was introduced to me by Dan, and James Quine is Dan's uncle who was visiting during those years. He had a good time playing some old guitars of mine and he ended up on the album as well.

When Dan first sat down with a guitar and played a tune for me titled "Whispered Words", I instantly heard a finished fleshed-out version in my head, being sung by Roy Orbison, just the way I think Roy would have recorded it in some huge old studio. That's how it usually works in my head. But at that time we were still in Dan's "Pie Factory" studio and it was tracked with a simpler but heavier hitting drum part on a P.O.S. drum kit, with Dan on an acoustic guitar, facing me while singing into his vocal mic as I would just follow his lead, watching his body cues, nothing more than that. Later on, when we built up the studio in Dan's new house, we approached it differently, a little bit more like what I originally heard in my head. I suggested using an acoustic bass and bringing in my friend, Dave Huddleston, for the part and to have all of us play live in the studio... just the three of us... old school. I remember just barely tapping my own trusty ol' Ludwig Super Classic kit with pencil sized sticks, but they ended up still sounding rather huge. Dan's Dad, Chuck, wrote those lyrics and seemed pretty happy with our results, I wish we would have spent the time to cut another take with Dave singing the main vocal in his Roy Orbison voice. That would have been a real trip to listen to.

During one of his visits, Dan's uncle James joined in for several numbers after he saw what Dan and I had been doing. I lent him a few guitars of mine to play with and he ended up using them on the album. On "HeartBroken, In Disrepair", I came up with some ideas on harmony parts for James and Dan to sing in the background. James was also in on the handclaps of "Street Walkin' ". James Quine is a very talented artist and he added a lot to the mix. Having more than one guitarist in the studio at the same time seemed like such a luxury. In the promo for "Trouble Weighs a Ton", you can see Dan and James using a couple of my old guitars.

Jessica Lea Mayfield lent her sweet voice to the harmonies on "When The Night Comes". I've always loved working with Jessica and we remain dear friends. We cracked each other up from the get-go. I thank Dan for that introduction.

With the way that it all gets spun, I can see how people get confused about "The Fast Five" being involved with the making of KIH. They, The Fast Five(Hacienda), were not involved with the making of "Keep It Hid". They were members of a band called "Hacienda" and they were Dan's friends. They spent a lot of time at Dan's home studio and we used them a lot to test out ways to record and audition different recording gear while they played their own material, which included some covers. They, too, were youngsters interested in vintage gear and I let them borrow some extremely sweet pieces to use on their own recordings. You would never know it by reading any of their interviews or promo materials.  When I was their ages, if someone would have put into my hands some of the gear that I trustingly put into theirs, I wouldn't know how or when to stop thanking them.  Like us old people say, "These kids today..."

HEAD MEDICINE:  when exactly did you realize that the initial experimental studio recordings were being honed into an album? were alot of the original recordings used on the final album or were new versions created from these early takes or overdubs added later to polish them and finish them off?

BOB CESARE:  I don't actually recall the exact date of when Dan told me that his record label wanted an album's worth of our work. Since I don't know when Dan started sending in our recordings to his people, I have no way of knowing what tune we would have been working on at the time. All I remember is that he said something like his label wanted a few more songs to round out an album. You've got to realize that during those few years of me helping him out as a friend, as far as a drummer, I had been out of the music game for nearly a few decades. At best, I sat in with some friends in a Cleveland band called "The Echos" just a few times a year for only a few years, so I was basically covered with rust. Other than that, I seldom touched a drumstick. Many a drum track that I laid down for Dan, still makes my gut turn into a knot when I hear a playback but they went out into the world as is, warts and all. Oh well, what's done is done.

HEAD MEDICINE:  other than "Goin' Home," are there any other out-takes you remember being better/notably different than the final tracks? were there any compositions that you had wished would have made the album or been developed further but didn't make the cut?

BOB CESARE: Man, that's a tuff one. Dan and I had put so many other tunes together. So many cool tunes come to mind, such as "My Final Scene", "Come To Me", "Nothin' More To Give", "I'm That Kind Of Man", "All I Can Do Is Cry", "Money And Trouble", "Fate And Circumstance", "Any Old Way"... The list can go on and on. They were all a lot of fun to craft and I still pull them out for a listen once in a while. I can still smell the rancid dough odor from the Pie Factory tunes.

HEAD MEDICINE:  Mark Neil's contributions to "Keep it Hid" cannot be overstated. can you tell us a bit about what Mark brought to the table as mixer and co-engineer, as well as co-designer of Dan's studio?

BOB CESARE: Mark Neill just didn't bring things to the table, Hell, he helped design and build the damn table. Mark and I were both ready and eager to be the musicians for a KIH tour. Who knew the music better than us? At that time, Dan seemed very impressed with Mark Neill's Soil of The South Studio and Liam Watson's Toe Rag Studio. He seemed to want their sound and whatever it took to make it happen. It's not as easy as is appears. Cool gear doesn't make great songs. Great songs make gear cool. Mark knew what it took to make great records and he also knew how to make it happen. He has a great ear for tone and sound. He trusts his own ear and doesn't depend on the ears of others and besides that, he's a great musician and vocalist. He can walk the walk and talk the talk with the best of them. He uses what he knows to work and knows how to work what he uses. Sure, you can buy much of the same vintage gear that Mark uses, but it still doesn't turn you into him. A great (cool, hip, retro, rare, repro, expensive, etc.) brush does not an artist make.

HEAD MEDICINE:  obviously Patrick Carney is a great drummer, but i think your drumming has a more focused sound and a wider range. was it intimidating recording with Dan when he and Patrick were so closely linked, especially at such a pivotal point in the Black Keys career as they teetered on the edge of superstardom?

BOB CESARE:  Patrick is unique, to say the least and I thank you for the cool compliment on my drumming. I started playing in the sixties and have had the opportunity to play with many gifted musicians, which include my Dad. I've played in all sorts of musical situations and had to learn how to adapt. Before I started working with Dan, I had all but given it up with only playing a few gigs a year only to help out some friends. My tastes in music run the gamut. I wasn't intimidated at all by either Patrick or Dan. Yeah, I think they were starting to get big, but I just don't get star struck. I feel that trait can be off-putting to some ego-heads and that's pretty sad. Yes, at one time it was The Beatles for me but nowadays, nobody comes to mind. If I meet a musician who is a good person, then all is good. The second part of that equation is the most important part to me. I would be the last person on earth to ever want to get a band to break up. Slime bags who do that and/or screw over their bandmates rate nothing more than being simply defined as carbon-based.

HEAD MEDICINE:  after "keep it hid," the Black Keys reconvened and released their two blockbuster, career defining albums that sonically took the band into more expansive territory. they became far more than just a bombastic blues rawk band, and i can't help but feel that alot of that found it's start on this record. are there any traits, either with the songs themselves or the production, where you can see the lingering "keep it hid" influence on the Black Keys?

BOB CESARE:  As far as any lingering DNA from "Keep It Hid", perhaps you should rephrase your question, "Where don't you...?"

HEAD MEDICINE:  Bob, you seemed to have a strong yet rarely discussed influence on the development of the Black Keys during their most important and transformative years, the bridge years from a raw basement blues band to arguably the biggest rock band in the world today. you are prominently thanked in the liner notes of Magic Potion as well as Attack and Release. what do you feel was your strongest contribution during these years, outside of the recording of "Keep it Hid?"  i understand that you introduced Dan to Paul Hamann at Suma Studios (later where Attack and Release would be recorded)?

BOB CESARE: Strongest contribution? Getting them out of the basement. You can only go so far in a basement before you hit a wall.

I introduced Dan to my old friend, Paul Hamann,who owns and operates Suma Recording in Painesville, Ohio. Paul and I go way back. I went there with Dan to show him a real studio. That's how Dan learned about the genius of Paul Hamann and Suma Recording. Suma has to be one of the coolest recording studios on the planet. I took Dan up for a tour and he seemed rather taken with the place and it's rich history. Dan seemed especially geeked over Paul's beautiful Neumann record cutting lathe. "This is what it really meant by going into the studio to cut a record", I told Dan as he stared at the lathe. It all seemed to suddenly click and to make a long story less long, recording time was booked at Suma for the recording of "Attack & Release". What's in that name? Just look at the control panel of a basic audio compressor.  Dan started working with Paul, first with some baby steps, getting some of his other projects mastered, cut onto vinyl and such, and then onto actually recording Attack & Release there. Patrick even ended up using my drum's tea towels on his own drums during those sessions.

HEAD MEDICINE:  is there anything else about "Keep it Hid," whether during the sessions or the album itself or anything really, that you feel is interesting or important for fans of the album to know?

BOB CESARE:  "Keep It Hid" happened. It can't be undone, un-rung, burned or buried. It shall remain a permanent rung in their ladder. "Keep It Hid" was the resulting chemical reaction that took place between the two of us... and Mark Neill makes three. Sorry to say, but you will never see/hear that particular reaction take place again. It could have grown into such a good thing.  but It was a good thing that Dan made that "solo" album. It was a very good thing.

END

NEXT:  Mark Neill gives an exclusive interview providing invaluable insight into the recording, production, and mixing of "Keep it Hid."  Please stay tuned for Part Two of "'Keep it Hid' No More"

~art and interview conducted by Kojak.  copyright 2013 brian james koschak and bob cesare.  cannot be reproduced without permission by the author.